Glad to see I’m not alone.

I’m not going to pretend to be an economic wizard, I have a hard time adding up change from my pocket, but, like the majority of Americans, I’m not sure we need any kind of bailout at all. In fact, the mere fact that this bailout is being rammed down our throats with record speed, making the Iraq war debate seem like a good-natured exchange of ideas in comparison, with an emphasis on FEAR FEAR FEAR TERROR TERROR TERROR and YOU CANNOT QUESTION US, THE COUNTRY IS AT STAKE!!!! and THE WORLD WILL END IF WE DON’T DO THIS GAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!1! makes me assume that the opposite is the case, that this is purely Bush’s corporate overlords demanding he turn over the Treasury to them before he leaves hit counter

And it looks like they’re getting their way.  We’re not talking about whether we need this or not, we’re now haggling over the details.  Even though an overwhelming majority of citizens don’t want this in any form.  Hmm, using fear and aggression to countermand democracy and the will of the people, where have I seen that before?

PS. Guess how many people, apart from John McCain I suppose, think the fundamentals of the American economy are strong? Go ahead, guess.


40 Responses to “Glad to see I’m not alone.”
  1. sailortweek says:

    Is it irresposible of me to never watch the news on television and get all the updates on goings-on I need from livejournal?

    Perhaps it is because you and many of my other livejournal buddies give their view and link their references. That and you don’t capslock mindless (but often used and somewhat amusing) phrases like “OMGWTFBBQ Bush sucks and I hate him”

    I enjoy your latest political entries. Thanks for posting them ^_^

  2. I read a lot of econ professors/writers, and while I think most aren’t too worried about the fundamentals, they do seem to agree that the bailout is BS.

    On another note, I wonder how long until someone ends a loud exclamation by shouting, “ONE!”

    • Todd says:

      That will be just before the first horseman shows up.

    • BS in what way? I’m just curious, because every major economics source I’ve seen is pro-bailout. It’s only in the details that any doubt exists (whether $700 bil is waytoofuckingmuch, or enough to not worry about failing to meet what’s necessary). It’s almost universally recognized amongst economists that most of the recent bailouts were necessary moves that have helped and will help stave off further economic shittiness here and abroad. Fannie and Freddie for example.

      • From what I’ve read, it’s similar to what Mr. Alcott’s been saying (or writing, rather): That the bailout’s shifting the burden from investors to taxpayers.

        • Right, but straight off that very link you provide admits the current crisis and “need for bold action to ensure that the financial system continues to function”. That means bailout. They’re just doing what I already said, doubting the details of the current plan.

          • Anonymous says:


            And about four sentances later he says, “The government can ensure a well-functioning financial industry, able to make new loans to creditworthy borrowers, without bailing out particular investors and institutions whose choices proved unwise.”

            • Re: Uhh?

              I wasn’t intending to imply they were in favor of the bailout, it’s obvious they’re not. I only meant to point out that even those opposed to the bailout understand something has to be done.

      • Todd says:

        It’s exactly the “staving it off” part that has me worried — as with everything else in his administration, Bush just wants to “stave off” the crash until it can happen on someone else’s watch.

        • I see it a little less cynically. Everyone agrees something needs to be done. And while “staving it off” sucks, it’s from all appearances absolutely necessary. Everything I’ve read says no bailouts means this crisis spirals out of control and we see economic collapse all over the world, and soonish. Bailouts alleviate the stresses on businesses desperately trying to recoup, and help settle down fears abroad (foreign institutions having unfortunately propped up their own nations’ economies on buying American debt).

          So, the staving off and the shifting of the burden onto taxpayers, to me, make sense. For now. I am glad there are Dems picking knits about the $700 Bil bailout, because there are definitely some glaring omissions that need to be addressed. But I do ultimately want to see it passed. It’s going to hurt while it helps, but without it the hurt would be far greater and far more damaging.

          • Todd says:

            Unfortunately, this bailout isn’t designed to “alleviate stresses on businesses desperately trying to recoup,” it’s also designed to go to businesses who haven’t suffered at all, just to maintain the the ever-upward party on Wall Street. That’s what we’re “bailing out” here, it’s nothing more than demanding that the middle class go more broke so that the ruling class can keep partying, and it’s nothing less than obscene.

            • The majority of the funds will go to banks that have suffered losses from mortgage-backed securities. The participation of banks that haven’t faced the same negatives from the real estate bubble pop is still up in the air as far as I can tell. Either way, the method of participation of any financial institution will still basically involve the government buying junk assets off of them that would otherwise be losses (meaning shit loans will still be the main thing, no matter which banks get in on this), helping these institutions to get balanced. This is a universal booster shot to the entire banking system. It’s not like the $700 billion is getting transferred into the personal checking accounts of every big money schlub on Wall Street.

              To me, it’s clear it isn’t the middle class getting more broke for the sake of the rich ruling class, it’s the middle class getting more broke now for the sake of the future of everyone tied to America’s economy. And footing this current bill in itself probably doesn’t even matter (considering how passe the fact of our trillions in national debt is treated). There are plenty ways in which President Obama might offset the costs of this bailout (namely, ending the Iraqi money pit).

              That said, the proposal needs more assurances as far as oversight, security, and actual returns. Once that’s in, there’s nothing a rational person should object to here. Just like a real life booster shot, it hurts, but it’s still the better option.

              • Todd says:

                “there’s nothing a rational person should object to here.”

                See, that’s just the thing though. In my view, there’s nothing a rational person should expect from the Bush administration other than deception, theft and piracy. They’ve done it over and over, why should this be any different? Three times being enemy action and all.

  3. autodidactic says:

    a bailout i could get behind

    …would involve everybody who got shafted with a predatory loan getting their mortgages paid in full. THAT would do much more for the economy than throwing fistfuls of money down the proverbial Sarlaac Pit.

    • Todd says:

      Re: a bailout i could get behind

      That sounds noble, but then what about people, like me for instance, who have reasonable, responsible mortgages, taken out upon sober consideration of finances, on property they can reasonably afford? Those folks would still have their mortgages while the yahoos down the block would be being rewarded for their irresponsible behavior, plus they’d be paying the extra taxes to support their bad finances.

      • autodidactic says:

        Re: a bailout i could get behind

        That’s why I specify “shafted by a predatory loan” rather than “tried to flip a bunch of condos that weren’t worth it”. Problem being on paper they look exactly alike.

        I work with poor people for a living. We’re not talking irresponsible so much as either destitute or not savvy enough (or moneyed enough) to angle for a better interest rate. I figure if there’s any such real thing as “deserves” in this world, these people would probably deserve a bailout more than Morgan Stanley, etc.

        AND it probably would have more of an immediate relieving effect. AND be a bit more traceable than whatever hoodoo they’re thinking of doing with it now.

        I dunno, if I ran the circus, I’d just fuck it up in a new and unique way, same as anyone.

  4. seamusd says:

    Hell no you’re not alone. There’s a multitude standing behind you.

    • Todd says:


      • seamusd says:

        We’re mad as hell and WE’RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!

        • Todd says:


          • seamusd says:


            • Todd says:


              • seamusd says:

                There ain’t nobody gonna push me of my land! My grandpa took up this land 70 years ago, my pa was born here, we were all born on it. And some of of us was killed on it! …and some of us died on it. That’s what make it our’n, bein’ born on it,…and workin’ on it,…and and dying’ on it! And not no piece of paper with the writin’ on it!

                • Todd says:

                  Wherever there’s a cop beatin’ a guy, I’ll be there.

                  • seamusd says:

                    The ones who don’t enjoy themselves, even when they laugh. Oh yeah. The ones who worship the corporate image, not knowing that they work for someone else. Oh yeah. The ones who should have been shot in the cradle… Pow! Oh yeah. The ones who say ‘Follow me to success, but kill me if I fail… so to speak.’ Oh yeah. The ones who say we Italians are the greatest he-men on earth. Oh yeah. The ones who are noble Romans, the ones who say ‘That’s for me,’ the ones who say ‘You know what I mean.’ Oh yeah. The ones who vote for the right because they’re fed up with strikes. Oh yeah. The ones who vote white in order not to get dirty. The ones who never get involved with politics. Oh yeah. The ones who say ‘Be calm, calm.’ The ones who still support the king. The ones who say ‘Yes, sir.’ Oh yeah. The ones who make love standing in their boots, and imagine they’re in a luxurious bed. The ones who believe Christ is Santa Claus as a young man. Oh yeah. The ones who say ‘Oh, what the hell.’ The ones who were there. The ones who believe in everything, even in God. The ones who listen to the national anthem. Oh yeah. The ones who love their country. The ones who keep going, just to see how it will end. Oh yeah. The ones who are in garbage up to here. Oh yeah. The ones who sleep soundly, even with cancer. Oh yeah. The ones who, even now, don’t believe the world is round. Oh yeah, oh yeah. The ones who are afraid of flying. Oh yeah. The ones who have never had a fatal accident. Oh yeah. The ones who have had one. The ones who, at a certain point in their lives, create a secret weapon, Christ. Oh yeah. The ones who are always standing at the bar. The ones who are always in Switzerland. The ones who started early, haven’t arrived, and don’t know they’re not going to. Oh yeah. The ones who lose wars by the skin of their teeth. Oh yeah. The ones who say ‘Everything is wrong here.’ The ones who say ‘Now let’s all have a good laugh.’ Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

                    • Todd says:

                      SHOW ME THE MONEY!

                    • seamusd says:

                      I’m cheating, I know, that that’s a damn righteous speech!

                    • Todd says:

                      If we are mark’d to die, we are enow
                      To do our country loss; and if to live,
                      The fewer men, the greater share of honour.
                      God’s will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.
                      By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,
                      Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;
                      It yearns me not if men my garments wear;
                      Such outward things dwell not in my desires.
                      But if it be a sin to covet honour,
                      I am the most offending soul alive.
                      No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.
                      God’s peace! I would not lose so great an honour
                      As one man more methinks would share from me
                      For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more!
                      Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,
                      That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
                      Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
                      And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
                      We would not die in that man’s company
                      That fears his fellowship to die with us.
                      This day is call’d the feast of Crispian.
                      He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
                      Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam’d,
                      And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
                      He that shall live this day, and see old age,
                      Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
                      And say ‘To-morrow is Saint Crispian.’
                      Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
                      And say ‘These wounds I had on Crispian’s day.’
                      Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
                      But he’ll remember, with advantages,
                      What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,
                      Familiar in his mouth as household words-
                      Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,
                      Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-
                      Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb’red.
                      This story shall the good man teach his son;
                      And Crispin Crispian shall ne’er go by,
                      From this day to the ending of the world,
                      But we in it shall be remembered-
                      We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
                      For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
                      Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,
                      This day shall gentle his condition;
                      And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
                      Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
                      And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
                      That fought with us upon Saint Crispin’s day.

                    • seamusd says:

                      All train compartments smell vaguely of shit. It gets so you don’t mind it. That’s the worst thing that I can confess. You know how long it took me to get there? A long time. When you die you’re going to regret the things you don’t do. You think you’re queer? I’m going to tell you something: we’re all queer. You think you’re a thief? So what? You get befuddled by a middle-class morality? Get shut of it. Shut it out. You cheat on your wife? You did it, live with it. You fuck little girls, so be it. There’s an absolute morality? Maybe. And then what? If you think there is, go ahead, be that thing. Bad people go to hell? I don’t think so. If you think that, act that way. A hell exists on earth? Yes. I won’t live in it. That’s me.

                    • Todd says:

                      O thou wall,
                      That girdlest in those wolves, dive in the earth,
                      And fence not Athens! Matrons, turn incontinent!
                      Obedience fail in children! slaves and fools,
                      Pluck the grave wrinkled senate from the bench,
                      And minister in their steads! to general filths
                      Convert o’ the instant, green virginity,
                      Do ‘t in your parents’ eyes! bankrupts, hold fast;
                      Rather than render back, out with your knives,
                      And cut your trusters’ throats! bound servants, steal!
                      Large-handed robbers your grave masters are,
                      And pill by law. Maid, to thy master’s bed;
                      Thy mistress is o’ the brothel! Son of sixteen,
                      pluck the lined crutch from thy old limping sire,
                      With it beat out his brains! Piety, and fear,
                      Religion to the gods, peace, justice, truth,
                      Domestic awe, night-rest, and neighbourhood,
                      Instruction, manners, mysteries, and trades,
                      Degrees, observances, customs, and laws,
                      Decline to your confounding contraries,
                      And let confusion live! Plagues, incident to men,
                      Your potent and infectious fevers heap
                      On Athens, ripe for stroke! Thou cold sciatica,
                      Cripple our senators, that their limbs may halt
                      As lamely as their manners. Lust and liberty
                      Creep in the minds and marrows of our youth,
                      That ‘gainst the stream of virtue they may strive,
                      And drown themselves in riot! Itches, blains,
                      Sow all the Athenian bosoms; and their crop
                      Be general leprosy! Breath infect breath,
                      at their society, as their friendship, may
                      merely poison! Nothing I’ll bear from thee,
                      But nakedness, thou detestable town!
                      Take thou that too, with multiplying bans!
                      Timon will to the woods; where he shall find
                      The unkindest beast more kinder than mankind.
                      The gods confound–hear me, you good gods all–
                      The Athenians both within and out that wall!
                      And grant, as Timon grows, his hate may grow
                      To the whole race of mankind, high and low! Amen.

                    • seamusd says:

                      Do you see this fine thing? Do you admire the humanity of it? Because the human beings, my son, they believe everything is alive. Not only man and animals. But also water, earth, stone. And also the things from them… like that hair. The man from whom this hair came, he’s bald on the other side, because I now own his scalp! That is the way things are. But the white man, they believe EVERYTHING is dead. Stone, earth, animals. And people! Even their own people! If things keep trying to live, white man will rub them out. That is the difference.

                    • Todd says:

                      One day a real rain will come and wash all the scum off the street.

                    • Todd says:

                      Okay, we’re running out of space here. I don’t actually know the “ones who still support the king” one. What is that?

                    • seamusd says:

                      That’s from Seven Beauties, the opening monologue

                    • Todd says:

                      Ah, it’s been years since I saw that. Okay, the margins are telling me to get back to work.

                    • seamusd says:

                      Nice playing:

                      “We’re actors! We’re the opposite of people!”

                    • seamusd says:

                      Foul! No non sequiturs! Three… two, one game all.

                    • robjmiller says:

                      I made love to your mother about half an hour ago, and now I’m beginning to think that maybe it wasn’t such a good idea.

  5. noskilz says:

    The blitz of negative reactions from their constituents seems to be slowing things down. Indeed, there was talk of postponing matters until after the Sept 26 adjournment because so much was still in the air – of course, there was also talk of not adjourning, as well as claims that the deal is all but done. What is definite, is that the public reaction has been overwhelmingly negative, and lawmakers are very nervous about that. For having the end of the world as we know it on our doorstep, there seems to be a marked absence of details and a strange emphasis on haste. It’s not that I don’t think we’re screwed – the pooch has been so brutally screwed the ASPCA will be doing drive-bys – but it’s difficult to see how the Paulson Plan, without being so modified as to be unrecognizable, will help that situation. Surely if the situation is as dire and as pressing, it should be a simple matter for the Treasury website(or better yet, the GAO)to provide a well-illustrated, chart-laden article or series of articles clearly explaining their premises and how these actions are expected to help.

    Anyone who hasn’t at least dropped an email by now might want to give it a try. The worst that can happen is the occasional congressional spam. Friday may be critical – it sounds like something is going to happen, but what remains to be seen.